Sydney siege inquest: Gunman Man Haron Monis made hostages feel guilty about escaping
SYDNEY siege hostage Joel Herat has told of the moment he ran for his life — and the bullets weren’t far behind.
National
Don't miss out on the headlines from National. Followed categories will be added to My News.
LINDT Cafe worker and hostage Joel Herat has told the Sydney siege inquest he thought about stabbing the gunman Man Haron Monis in the neck.
The 22-year-old, who felt his “sense of hope” was diminishing, believed he could get into position to stab Monis.
Earlier, Mr Herat spoke about how he secretly stashed a knife and a pair of scissors away to be used as weapons during the siege.
“We felt we had been left there and had to do something ourselves to get out of the situation,” he said
But also weighing on his mind was that an attack on Monis “could have been a catastrophe”.
“I thought if I could maim him or stab him it would give people a chance to get away ... It played out in my head if I missed — and there was a good chance I would miss — he could kill everyone there and then.”
His fear was that it could “aggravate” the situation to a point where there would be no return. At the top of his mind was what would happen if Monis wasn’t killed and he turned his firearm on them.
Jeremy Gormly, counsel assisting the Coroner, asked him about the physical act of stabbing someone.
Mr Herat admitted he had thought of that, and it was part of why he “couldn’t bring myself to do it”.
“It’s not something you normally would have to do to protect yourself and others,” he said.
He’d thought about stabbing Monis “multiple times” throughout the ordeal.
The inquest is looking into the deaths arising from the siege, which began when gunman Monis entered the cafe on December 15, 2014 and took 18 people hostage.
Cafe manager Tori Johnson and Katrina Dawson were killed in the siege, along with Monis.
‘I HAD A FEELING BY MORNING WE WOULD ALL BE DEAD’
Monis discussed with the hostages who might be allowed out of the cafe — saying at one point all the women and Julie Taylor, who was pregnant, could go free.
It was a part of the siege in which Monis was quite reasonable, Mr Herat said, and able to be spoken with. But Mr Herat wasn’t sure if it would actually happen.
He told the inquest he formed the view that Monis was unpredictable and would not keep his word.
“I had a feeling that in the morning we all would be dead,” he said.
Mr Herat said one minute he was kind and then his mood would swing wildly to be more erratic.
Mr Gormly asked him why he thought things were about to get worse.
“Based on his mood, his temperament, the way he was speaking and repeating himself ... Going around in circles,” he said.
Later he allowed some hostages to call loved ones. Mr Herat didn’t think of it at the time, but later wondered if it was the gunman’s way of letting them say goodbye.
THE DRAMATIC ESCAPE
The inquest this afternoon has heard details of the escape of several hostages near the end of the siege. They made their move while Monis was walking in the kitchen area of the cafe with his gun trained on two hostages, Fiona Ma and Selina Win Pe.
“Jarrod said in a low voice ‘I’m going to get help’ and went to the door. There was maybe a second gap we all got up and ran to the door,” Mr Herat told the inquest.
“I got up as soon as Harriet [Denny] got up, and the other people who escaped, we all just ran for the door.”
Mr Herat looked quickly to see if Monis was watching and then “focused entirely on the glass door.”
A glass fell to the floor and broke as the group made the desperate dash to freedom. The next thing Mr Herat heard was “multiple” gunshots.
“I thought he was going to follow us out onto Martin Place and shoot us dead. Or shoot whoever was left in the cafe,” he said.
He felt bullets “whizzing past my ears”.
HOSTAGES STASH KNIFE AND SCISSORS
Lindt Cafe hostage Joel Herat spoke earlier about how he secretly stashed a knife and a pair of scissors away to be used as weapons during the Sydney siege.
Mr Herat, who has just taken to the stand at the inquest into the deaths during the siege, described the moment he feared he was in the middle of a “terrorist attack”.
He said Monis stood up after an intense discussion with cafe manager Tori Johnson and put on a bandanna that had Arabic writing on it.
Mr Herat didn’t know what the writing meant but “came to understand” it was related to terrorism.
Then his fears were realised as Monis started shouting and was heard to say the words “Isis” and “this is an attack on Australia”.
Just prior to this, co-worker Jarrod Morton-Hoffman handed Mr Herat a knife and a pair of scissors. Mr Herat was confused about what they were for, but was vaguely aware of the discussion Mr Johnson was having with Monis.
Mr Morton-Hoffman told him something was “wrong”.
“Jarrod said ‘dude, have these just in case, something doesn’t feel right’,” Mr Herat said.
Mr Gormly asked Mr Herat what he thought was happening.
“Putting two and two together, it was so we had weapons to protect ourselves.”
Mr Herat later secured the doors on the orders of Monis. He said there were people outside trying to come in, including a staff member who was worried about being late to work.
“I shook my head and said ‘you don’t want to be in here’.”
After the first three hostages escaped, Mr Herat said the mood in the cafe changed as Monis grew more agitated.
“He said ‘someone has to die now’.” At that stage he had the gun aimed at Louisa Hope’s back, who he was using as a human shield.
Asked what the reaction from the people in the cafe was to that threat, Mr Herat said: “Everyone was terrified to say the least.”
He told of diving onto a couch in fear because he felt Monis might open fire on them when he heard the sound of the first hostages escaping.
Mr Gormly wanted to know if Monis appeared to be losing control. Mr Herat believed the gunman was in control, but was just agitated and angry.
HOSTAGE’S CHILLING TEXT AMID SIEGE HORROR
Sydney siege hostage Elly Chen told the inquest that she texted a friend “I’ll see you on the other side” as she prepared to make her daring escape from the Lindt Cafe.
Ms Chen had been listening to gunman Man Haron Monis “throwing threats” around that he would begin killing hostages if anyone managed to get out of the Martin Place cafe.
Monis had been using hostages as a human shield at times, and Ms Chen believed he would use the shotgun he was holding.
“You feared being killed as you escaped,” said barrister Gabi Bashir SC, who is representing Tori Johnson’s family.
Ms Chen said that was correct: “I thought he’d do what he said.”
She also texted her friend that if she didn’t speak to her later that night “it was all good”.
This morning, Ms Chen has told of feeling “calm” during the siege, but at other times she had an anxiety attack and vomited. She agreed with Ms Bashir that was a result to feeling “terrorised” by Monis who had the gun aimed at her back.
Monis told the hostages he was a “nice” man and Ms Chen relayed that to police when she was interviewed after her escape. She now believes he was attempting to manipulate the hostages.
‘IF ANYONE ESCAPED IT WOULD BE TORI’S FAULT’
Ms Chen has also revealed how Monis told them if anyone else escaped the Martin Place cafe it would “be Tori’s fault”.
She told the inquest into the deaths arising from the siege that Monis had threatened them after three other hostages escaped earlier in the day. Monis said he would blame Tori Johnson as he was the cafe manager.
Ms Chen and Jieun (April) Bae were sitting silently on the floor near a door that had been bolted shut during the siege on December 15, 2014.
She had been lying on the floor hyperventilating, after earlier being forced to hold Monis’ Islamic flag at the window, when Ms Bae told her she wanted to escape.
Without Monis seeing, Ms Bae was able to make at least three trips to the door to lower the bolt on the door.
The 23-year-old said it took a few minutes and they were desperate to make sure that Monis wouldn’t see them.
Ms Bae wanted to leave as soon as they could, but Ms Chen told the inquest today she was worried what Monis would do to the other hostages when he realised they were gone.
“He was very angry and had been telling us that if anyone else escaped it would be Tori’s fault.”
It was clear to her that Monis would blame cafe manager Tori Johnson if anyone managed to get away.
“He was really pressuring us ... making sure we wouldn’t leave.”
She believed him and said “guilt” about what would happen to the others held her back.
“I was more worried about the guilt we escaped and he would kill someone,” she said.
Eventually though she and Ms Bae made their move.
Ms Chen said she coughed to disguise the distinctive click of the door unlocking. There was some noise in the cafe at the time as hostages made phone calls to media outlets, on behalf of Monis.
Footage of the two women escaping has been shown to the inquest. First Ms Bae crawled through the door and ran quickly away, while Ms Chen took more time in the foyer to make sure the door didn’t shut loudly.
“I wanted to be really careful,” she said.
Ms Chen said there were times during the siege she felt calm, but at other times she vomited and needed to lie down
Monis told the hostages he was “nice” and was looking after them by giving them water, for example. She initially wondered if this was true but told the inquest she now realised how manipulative he was.
Monis shot Mr Johnson in the back of the head just after 2am on December 16, causing tactical police to storm the cafe and bring the siege to an end. Katrina Dawson and the gunman were also killed.
Originally published as Sydney siege inquest: Gunman Man Haron Monis made hostages feel guilty about escaping
Aussies left waiting for $16bn HECS cut
The federal government has defended making millions of Aussies wait to learn if $16bn will be wiped from their student debts.
Man charged over double fatal shooting
Three men now stand charged with murder after a man and woman were allegedly fatally shot in Melbourne’s south.