Charmaine McLeod inquiry Day 2: Little boy’s scary warning before fatal crash

A childcare worker has given evidence at an inquest about a disturbing encounter she had with a four-year-old boy shortly before he and his three siblings were killed alongside their mum.

• Horrific contents: Details of handwritten note

The deaths of Charmaine Harris McLeod and her children Aaleyn, 6, Matilda, 5, Wyatt, 4, and Zaidok, 2, on May 27, 2019, are the subject of a 17-day inquiry.

This is what happened on Day 2 of the proceedings.

Charmaine Harris McLeod and her four children, Aaleyn, 6, Matilda, 5, Wyatt, 4, and Zaidok, 2, were killed in a car crash near Kingaroy in 2019.

LITTLE BOY’S SCARY WARNING BEFORE FATAL CRASH

A childcare worker began documenting behaviour problems with two of Charmaine McLeod’s children, including Wyatt who said he was going to cut the woman “like the bad man cut me” while holding a knife, the inquest heard.

The woman said she was sitting across the table from Wyatt, who was aged 4 when he died, when he reached out with a knife and said “I’m going to cut you like a bad man cut me”.

The woman said Wyatt also said “there’s a bad man at daddy’s”.

She recalled an episode where Wyatt engaged in sexualised behaviour which she felt was outside the bounds of typical child behaviour.

“There was force in his words,” she said.

Wyatt was also consistently saying he was sick despite not having symptoms and had nightmares like “almost fighting in his sleep” where he would cry and occasionally yell out.

She said she contacted Child Safety but did not officially report her concerns because she had been told by the department that there was an ongoing investigation and the children were not currently unsafe.

Charmaine McLeod and her four children were killed in a horror crash near Kingaroy in 2019.

The woman said Ms McLeod had asked her to document any behaviour out of the ordinary regarding her children because she had concerns Wyatt had been inappropriately dealt with.

“I just need to clarify that … there’s three sides to every story - his, hers and the truth. So … I don’t necessarily believe that what someone says to me is correct or accurate,” she said

The woman became friendly with Ms McLeod and wrote her a reference letter saying the children appeared well looked after and generally happy and the mother spent a lot of time with them.

The woman said had never met Ms McLeod’s husband, James McLeod, and had no first hand knowledge of his relationship with his children.

Earlier on Thursday the inquest heard police told a friend of Ms McLeod’s that they believed her daughter Matilda had been “coached” to disclose alleged sexual abuse by her father, James McLeod.

The friend, who cannot be identified, said she could not recall if the police officer believed Ms McLeod had coached the child or someone else.

The inquest heard Ms McLeod and her children had left a women’s refuge and visited the friend.

The woman said Ms McLeod became angry when questioned about leaving the refuge and took off leaving the children with the friend.

James McLeod leaves the Brisbane Magistrates court after attending the inquest into the death of his wife and four children. Picture: NCA NewsWire/Tertius Pickard

She said police were called about what to do with the children and police advised getting Mr McLeod to collect them.

“It was on loudspeaker and (the police officer) just said something along the lines of there’s no investigation and it seems like the child was coached to say that,” the woman said.

Seeking clarification barrister Karen Carmody, representing the Department of Child Safety (as it was then known), asked the woman if she was claiming that in the “context of an allegation that the father has sexually abused Matilda, the police ask the father to pick up Matilda and the other children”?

“Yes,” the woman said.

The woman said she couldn’t take Ms McLeod at face value as she would tell different versions of the same story.

In one instance she visited Ms McLeod who was excited about having slept with Mr McLeod for the first time. However the woman said when she later went home she got a message from Ms McLeod allegeding it had been rape.

The woman said she then called Mr McLeod, who she was also friends with, who said it was consensual.

The inquest heard that a relative of Ms McLeod’s told the woman that Mr McLeod had asked her to sleep with him but she didn’t think it was “over the top”.

“He’s married to Charmaine with children and he’s asking Charmaine’s (relative) to sleep with him and you didn’t think that was over the top,” Ms Carmody asked.

“Well I don’t think he like tried anything so that’s probably what I meant by that,” the woman said.

The woman said she saw Ms McLeod about a month before the fatal crash and the children “seemed happy with her”.

“She was trying to set up routines for them and, you know, chore charts and stuff,” she said.

MUM ‘HEARD VOICES’ BEFORE HORROR CRASH

The friend of a woman killed in a crash with her four young children says she does not believe the mother would ever have done anything to harm her kids.

The woman, who cannot be identified, said Charmaine Harris McLeod disclosed before her death she heard voices that warned if she did not kill herself, people she loved would die.

Charmaine Harris McLeod with her four children, Aaleyn, Matilda, Wyatt and Zaidok.

An inquest is examining the circumstances around the deaths of 35-year-old Ms McLeod who died in a crash with her children Aaleyn, 6, Matilda, 5, Wyatt, 4, and Zaidok, 2, on May 27, 2019 when their SUV collided head on with a truck near Kingaroy.

One of Ms McLeod’s friends on Thursday told the Brisbane Coroners Court that before she died, the mother-of-four would often speak about hearing voices.

“She did talk about voices telling her that if she didn’t kill herself that they would kill somebody that she loved or somebody that she knew,” the witness said.

The woman said Ms McLeod believed she had to listen to the voices because someone would be hurt if she didn’t and said she was “quite upset about it”.

The inquest heard on another occasion, she spoke about seeing an animal on her car while driving.

“She said that one day she was driving along in her car and she had to put (her) head out the window because there was a giraffe sitting on the front of her car,” the witness said.

Asked if she said it in a “matter of fact” way, the woman said: “Yes and I think as far as I can remember she was laughing about it thinking it was quite funny”.

The woman said she had previously assisted Ms McLeod after several suicide attempts.

“There was a stage … and I can’t remember the exact dates but there was a stage where she attempted to commit suicide quite a few times…,” she said.

“I was at the hospital with her quite a few times.”

A witness called to give evidence in the Charmaine McLeod inquest. Picture: NCA NewsWire/Tertius Pickard

The witness said despite that background, she would have been “very surprised” if Ms McLeod ever did anything to harm her children.

“… one of the things she spoke to me about a few times was that she was scared of dying in a car accident,” she said.

“She said sometimes when she was driving she would get very anxious because she worried that she might have a car accident.

“So I just really wanted to add that again I’d be really surprised if she had done this on purpose because it’s not something that I, I just wouldn’t have imagined her harming those kids and I wouldn’t have imagined her choosing that particular form of harming herself.”

Charmaine McLeod and her four children were killed in a crash near Kingaroy in 2019.

Another friend of Ms McLeod, whose identity was also suppressed, gave evidence about the state of the relationship between the mother and her then husband and father of the children James McLeod.

She alleged Mr McLeod criticised his wife for being “overweight”, and that he had discussed having a “second wife” or “exploring being with other people” because her physical appearance wasn’t attractive to him while she was pregnant.

“I put to that what in fact happened was James made comments about their health, not Charmaine’s weight, and that he was encouraging both of them to get healthier, maybe go to the gym,” Mr McLeod’s barrister Amelia Hughes put to the woman who responded “no”.

James McLeod with his four children, who died alongside their mother in a horror head-on crash. Picture: Facebook

Under questioning from counsel assisting Kylie Hillard, the woman said Ms McLeod told her that her husband had made comments that the children would be “better off without her”.

“I think it was more along the lines of the kids would be better off with me and not you, they’d be better off with you gone…,” the woman said.

The witness said she saw Ms McLeod about one week before she died.

“She had called me, she was upset,” she said.

“We had a coffee out the back and she talked to me about everything that was going on in the custody case with James and how she felt like no one was really helping her, she was trying to change lawyers I think at the time, but no one was really trying to help her or help give her advice on how to do it or what to do or even really listening to what she had to say.”

The woman said Ms McLeod told her she had been in touch with police and child safety regarding allegations of sexual abuse of one or two of her children.

Asked about the mother’s emotional state, the woman said: “She was calm but she was also upset, she wasn’t hysterical, a little bit teary but OK.”