Penrith Panthers coach Ivan Cleary on Jarome Luai, why Nathan Cleary isn’t the finished product
Ivan Cleary has rejected suggestions his relationship with Panthers five-eighth Jarome Luai is strained as his bid to keep the Tigers-bound superstar in Penrith is explained to MATT ENCARNACION.
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Penrith coach Ivan Cleary has revealed why he tried to “put the fear” into rival clubs wanting to sign Jarome Luai, rejecting claims his relationship with the departing five-eighth are strained.
Cleary sat down with Matt Encarnacion in Wigan to discuss Luai’s departure and Penrith’s succession plans, how they replace Stephen Crichton, why his son, Nathan Cleary “is far from the finished product”, the inspiration he gets from Manchester United legend Sir Alex Ferguson and why he isn’t a lifetime coach.
Matt Encarnacion: You visited Manchester United today, what was that like?
Ivan Cleary: I felt very lucky. I was just chatting about common stuff like how important culture is. Manchester United have been a club I’ve admired for many years obviously since Sir Alex Ferguson’s time there. I’ve always admired teams that just keep being consistent over a long period of time.
ME: Are you a fan?
IC: No, Nathan is. I’m actually a Liverpool fan. But I’ve really liked that whole thing, in the 90s they had a lot of young guys like (David) Beckham, (Paul) Scholes come through. We saw, at Penrith, that it was a model we wanted to follow.
To be able to go there, after Sir Alex, they’ve never really had any real consistency with managers. So two years, three years, he was there for 25 years. They’re still searching for that culture.
I shouldn’t say too much, but every time there’s a new manager, he’s got new ideas, new people. What I learnt was many things, but it’s also a bit of reinforcement for what matters. It doesn’t matter what sport. That’s what you should spend your time on.
ME: So what does matter?
IC: Culture matters. Teamwork and getting a team to fit together. That’s so crucial. Leadership, all that stuff.
ME: Speaking of leadership, what do you know about (Wigan coach) Matt Peet? I interviewed him the other day and he knew a lot about you and your club.
IC: He’s done a really good apprenticeship, he cares about what he does. And they’re really into the community. So what I’ve heard about Wigan is they’re one of the very few places in England where rugby league is bigger than football. St Helens have taken over lately, but Wigan was the biggest club for a long time. Leeds has their moments. Wigan is a big rugby league town. It’s humbling that he’s even looked at our model, so that’s cool.
ME: You mentioned Alex Ferguson. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learnt from him?
IC: He’s always backed young guys. That’s his thing. He’s always said, ‘If you put young guys in, they'll very rarely let you down.’ It’s always a good reminder when you’re thinking about putting a young guy in. I like that. He backed a young group of kids that they modelled that whole club on. I follow that kind of stuff. They’re big on training intensity. I don’t think I’m the strict, full-on guy he is. He also spoke a lot about how you’ve got two ears, two eyes and one mouth for no reason. If you listen and watch, you get a free education.
ME: Kids. What do you like about Jack Cole?
IC: One, he’s a good kid. He fits all our values. He’s fit, trains hard, competitive. He’s been very good at junior levels. He played NSW under-19s, Jersey Flegg player of the year.
But it’s more than that. I feel like he’s ready to get in there. I think he’s going to have a good NRL career. How good? I don’t know how far this is going to go for him, but we’re going to back him. We signed him for a few years. It’s just a good opportunity, he’s trained well, good pre-season. He’s got a good team around him. Jarome is waiting in the wings, but Jack’s ready to do what we need him to do.
ME: Too easy to assume that he’s the long-term plan after Jarome leaves?
IC: I think it’s fair to say that we think he can do it, yeah.
ME: You’ve had to replace some real stars after your premierships. How different a challenge is Stephen Crichton?
IC: They’re all different. But you can’t replace Stephen Crichton. He’s a bit like Api (Koroisau) and (Viliame) Kikau, they’re irreplaceable. You can’t find someone like him. You can if you pay him that much. But even more than that, he added so much more to us. His personality. So obviously someone else gets an opportunity. As a team and group, we have to try and fill that gap. You don’t fill a gap with one person. You get someone else in there who has different strengths. We just have to adjust, and we’ve done it before. It gives us confidence that we can do it. Last year was a big year, not just a couple of players, but two assistant coaches as well. You don’t replace them like-for-like. You just try and evolve as a team, no matter who’s coming in. We’re a new team, new circumstances.
ME: Spencer (Leniu) is another one hard to replace. He’s such a unique and dynamic player.
IC: Again, I can’t think of another player in the comp like Spencer. We just have to adjust and be different.
ME: Stephen, Spencer, and Jarome next year. They’ve been able to bring so much, collectively, to your club. How do you move on from that?
IC: Yeah, that’s very challenging. Because you’re right. Those guys have got like, not just the individuals, but the way they connect. They’re very proud of where they come from. In many respects, there’d be a lot of kids in that area looking up to those guys and thinking, ‘I can do that too’. That’s part of the challenge of being in a team and recreating those connections. We feel confident in our system, the core group of players we have.
But the challenge is definitely, when you lose the calibre of guys like that, the reality is we don’t really know how our team is going to look with those guys missing. But we’re confident in what we can do and adjust. It took us a while to get going last year. But it’s a long season and we’ll end up where we deserve.
ME: How does Nathan find another level after what he did in that grand final?
IC: He’s looking to improve. I know he can improve. He’s only 26, he’s had all that experience under his belt which he’s been able to use to his advantage. But he’s far from the finished product. He knows that.
Probably the obvious one is Origin, he knows he wants to be more consistent in that area. He’s had some good moments, but other moments he knows he can step up there, or prove. Probably the whole team can, but he definitely can. He’s still trying to work it out.
When you talk about the players we lose, the positives of the guys we have, they’re still right in the sweet spot of their careers. They’re at ages where they’ve got experience but also young enough that they’re still improving. Physically they’re in a good spot. And each year they play with each other, those combinations and connections should get stronger. It’s a bit of compound interest in one hand, but we’re losing a bit on the way too. It’s just about balancing that out. Hopefully the balance still puts us in the black.
ME: He was playing a bit more second-receiver last year with Jarome at first receiver. Is that something you’re trying to develop in both their games?
IC: Yeah, it was definitely the difference between Jack Cogger and Jarome. A lot of that was just playing to Coggs’ strength. But as you saw, it worked pretty well. It’s good development for Jarome too, particularly what his future might look like. At both of their careers, it’d be a nice way to evolve and change it up a bit, and for our team to get different looks. As you play and have success, everyone starts working you out a bit. We’ve got to try and keep everyone guessing as well.
ME: It’s been a few weeks since Jarome’s announcement. There was a bit of controversy around your comments before that. How is your relationship now?
IC: That was taken out of context and he knows that. I was never trying to have a shot at Romey. I was trying to put the fear into people who wanted to sign him because I didn’t want him to leave. At the end of the day, there’s no drama there.
It was a difficult period for everyone. The size of that deal, no one could ever begrudge Jarome for going. But the fact that it was so hard for him, that’s a nice acknowledgment of how much he loves the club and how much we love him. It’s a great challenge and opportunity for him and his family. We just look forward to having another year with him.
ME: It was life-changing money for him.
IC: It’s not just him, all those kids coming through look at someone at Jarome. I’ve come from the same area, and if I work hard … it’s inspiring.
ME: Three premierships in a row. How do you spot changes in hunger and motivation?
IC: It’s a very subtle change if it happens. You don’t walk in one day and they’re just not having a go. It’s more that each and every year, the boys just come back and they feel like they’re more ready to start. If they’re ready to start, then that means they’ve been doing something away from what we do. I think those are good signs.
And it’s been no different this year. Motivation levels over a long hard season but right now they’re looking good. Some boys have been hitting their best times in some things. And that’s what you need to do. Our competition just feels like it gets more even every year.
ME: What about you? Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy, have been coaching for a long time. Are you a life coach?
IC: I don’t think so. They probably said they wouldn’t be either. I don’t know. I’m not looking past what I’m doing now really. I’ve got a bit of security with another four years. I’m happy with the club I’m at, the support I get above me, the group, the staff. I don’t have any reason to be thinking about anything else.
ME: Is it too simple to say you’ll stop coaching when Nath finishes up?
IC: That’s a bit too simple, yeah. I think about that sometimes, what’ll happen when he leaves. I don’t want to coach against him. I’ve done that twice and I didn’t like it. But that’s a bit too simple to say right now. When he comes off-contract, he’ll be nearly 30. He’s his own man now. He’d be more so then. I haven’t thought that far.
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