‘Ummm’: Donald Trump temporarily stumped when asked ‘what happened’ to his vice president, Mike Pence
Donald Trump was left speechless during his appearance on a comedian’s podcast, after a particularly awkward question.
World
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One person is conspicuously absent from Donald Trump’s public remarks these days: the man who served as vice president throughout his entire first term in the White House.
Mike Pence, who was the governor of Indiana before he became vice president in 2017, is a strident conservative who was once widely respected in the Republican Party. Now, though, he is something of a pariah.
After four years of loyal service to Mr Trump as his top political lieutenant, Mr Pence ran afoul of the MAGA movement by refusing to use his ceremonial role, as head of the Senate, to reject the results from key states Joe Biden won in the 2020 election.
Mr Pence did not have the power to unilaterally overturn the election result, but Mr Trump told his supporters otherwise.
It culminated in a riot at the Capitol Building in Washington D.C. on January 6, 2021, when a mob of Mr Trump’s fans stormed the building in an attempt to stop Congress from formalising Mr Biden’s victory.
Some in the crowd were heard chanting “hang Mike Pence” and, infamously, a gallows was erected outside the building. Not ideal.
Mr Trump does not mention Mr Pence much anymore. His former vice president’s stance, in this election, is that he “cannot in good conscience” endorse the man with whom he shared a ticket in both 2016 and 2020.
During an appearance on the podcast of comedian Andrew Schulz today, Mr Trump was struck temporarily speechless by a question about Mr Pence.
The moment came during a discussion about Mr Trump’s propensity for giving his political opponents – and sometimes his allies – pejorative nicknames.
“What about Mike Pence? You got anything for Mike Pence?” Mr Schulz asked.
“Well it’s a shame, because he and I had a very good relationship,” said Mr Trump.
“What happened to him?” Mr Schulz interjected.
“Ummm...” Mr Trump said, floundering a little.
“Hangin’ out somewhere?” said Mr Schulz.
“Well he couldn’t cross the line of what was right, in my opinion,” said Mr Trump.
“Some people would disagree with that. But he had the right to go and put them before the legislatures, and have them reassess, because they found out a lot of bad things.
“And he had a lawyer who said he didn’t have that right, but he did have that right.
“And you know how we found out that was true? Because they changed the law after the election to make sure he couldn’t do what I said he could do.”
Mr Trump wanted Mr Pence, who was presiding over Congress’s formal electoral vote count, to throw out the votes from a small number of swing states, which he had lost to Mr Biden.
We should be clear here: Mr Pence did not have the power, as vice president, to unilaterally reject the election results. Quite rightly! Under the system Mr Trump wanted, his opponent in this election, Vice President Kamala Harris, could be defeated, but then use her role as head of the Senate to toss out the results from states she loses. One presumes Mr Trump would, at that point, change his tune on the matter.
Congress did indeed tweak the law, after the chaos in 2020, to explicitly clarify that the vice president’s role in counting the electoral votes is ceremonial. This was intended to prevent any future president from doing what Mr Trump did, and pressuring his or her vice president to defy the will of the people.
There was one more awkward moment during Mr Trump’s interview with Mr Schulz, which was mostly sympathetic, to be fair. It came when Mr Trump told the comedian, along with his co-host Akaash Singh: “I’m basically a truthful person.”
The two hosts responded by laughing at him.
Trump’s election denial persists
Mr Trump’s legal team launched more than 60 challenges, across various states, contesting the election results in 2020. None of them led anywhere.
Multiple judges, including conservatives appointed by Mr Trump himself, berated the then-president’s legal team for offering no credible evidence to support their claims that widespread voter fraud had changed the election’s outcome.
Mr Trump was asked about the 2020 result during his debate against Ms Harris last month.
“Are you now acknowledging that you lost in 2020?” moderator David Muir asked.
“No, I don’t acknowledge that at all,” Mr Trump replied.
“Look, there’s so much proof. All you have to do is look at it. And they should have sent it back to the (state) legislatures for approval.
“I got almost 75 million votes. The most votes any sitting president has ever gotten. I was told if I got 63, which was what I got in 2016, you can’t be beaten.
“The election, people should never be thinking about an election as fraudulent. We need two things. We need walls. We need – and we have to have it. We have to have borders. And we have to have good elections.
“Our elections are bad. And a lot of these illegal immigrants coming in, they’re trying to get them to vote. They can’t even speak English. They don’t even know what country they’re in, practically. And these people are trying to get them to vote. And that’s why they’re allowing them to come into our country.”
Again: Mr Trump’s legal team had every opportunity to present, as he puts it, “so much proof” of voter fraud in court after the 2020 election, and failed to produce anything.
The 2020 election was discussed at greater length during the vice presidential debate between Republican J.D. Vance and Democrat Tim Walz.
Senator Vance has stated, publicly, that he would not have certified the 2020 result if he had been in Mr Pence’s place.
“When Mike Pence made that decision to certify that election, that’s why Mike Pence isn’t on this stage,” Mr Walz said.
“What I’m concerned about is: where is the firewall with Donald Trump? Where is the firewall if he knows he could do anything, including taking an election and his vice president is not going to stand up to it?
“Will you stand up? Will you keep your oath of office, even if the president doesn’t?”
“He is still saying he didn’t lose the election. I would just ask that. Did he lose the 2020 election?” Mr Walz asked his opponent at another point in the debate.
“Tim, I’m focused on the future,” Mr Vance answered.
“Did Kamala Harris censor Americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 Covid situation?”
“That is a damning non-answer,” said Mr Walz.
At yet another point, Mr Vance argued it was “really rich” for Democrats to claim Mr Trump “is a unique threat to democracy”.
“He peacefully gave over power on January 20, as we have done for 250 years in this country,” he said.
Originally published as ‘Ummm’: Donald Trump temporarily stumped when asked ‘what happened’ to his vice president, Mike Pence
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