Robodebt royal commission hears from former Morrison government minister

Alan Tudge refuses to accept ministerial responsibilty for the unlawfulness of the robodebt during questioning at the royal commission.

Alan Tudge says it was not his responsibility check whether or not the robodebt scheme was lawful despite being the minister in charge.

The former human services minister has told the robodebt royal commission he was responsible for the scheme’s “lawful implementation”, although questions were at times raised about its fairness.

Mr Tudge said he assumed it was lawful, and had never been shown legal advice regarding its legality.

“It is unfathomable for a (department) secretary to be implementing a program which he or she would know to be unlawful. It is unfathomable,” he said about the scheme.

He also said the scheme had gone through a rigourous cabinet process “which always has a legal overlay.”

The automated welfare recovery scheme using incomig average unlawfully took $720m from 381,000 Australians. The practice was ruled unlawful by the Federal Court in 2019.

Mr Tudge, who served as human services minister from 2016 to 2017 during the height of the scheme, is giving evidence after his then senior media adviser appeared before the royal commission.

Rachelle Miller said Mr Tudge was known for his willingness to co-operate with journalists.

But this strategy began to become undone in late 2016 when a string of interviews were conducted just as “adverse media” about Robodebt was “developing momentum”.

Alan Tudge fronted the royal commission on Wednesday.

A story in The Australian in December of that year was aimed to showcase the department’s achievements with the scheme under the headline “Welfare debt squad hunts for $4bn”.

“I had it recommended to me that this would be a good story to get out to show what the government is doing,” Mr Tudge told the commission on Wednesday.

However, that newspaper article generated other media including a Triple J Hack interview where when asked about the Centrelink debt recovery fee and he said “that’s news to me”.

“The way it was phrased to me, I was less familiar with,” he told the commission in reference to the interview’s questions.

Justin Greggery KC, the senior counsel assisting the commission, asked about the narrative at the time which was shown in a request by A Current Affair to talk about overpayments.

“By the time you went on leave in late December [2016] it’s fair to say that there was adverse media in respect of the scheme which was developing momentum?” Mr Greggery asked.

“I think that’s right.”

Ms Miller on Tuesday said his office had a strategy in place that aimed to “shut down” a potential Robodebt media crisis.

“The media strategy we developed was to run a counter-narrative in the more friendly media such as The Australian and the tabloids, which we knew were interested in running stories about welfare system integrity and the supposed ‘dole-bludgers’,” she said.

Ms Miller said the office typically wasn’t worried about negative coverage at the time, because “it wasn’t unusual” for certain outlets to be “attacking us over social policy”.

But once Robodebt’s shortcomings began to attract more widespread coverage, then-prime minister Malcolm Turnbull became “unhappy”, she said.

Ms Miller also told the royal commission the Department of Human Services hushed reports of people taking their own lives after being caught up in the “crisis”.

Ms Miller said she didn’t talk to DHS about any relationship between suicides and debt notices.

Former human resources minister Alan Tudge arrives at the 2017 Midwinter Ball in the company of Liberal staffer Rachelle Miller, who he was having an affair with.

She also said many staffers in the department were quick to distance themselves from the reality of those affected by Robodebt’s failures.

“There was a distinct lack of empathy and putting yourself in a person’s shoes, a person who was receiving a Centrelink debt notice,” Ms Miller said.

“It just didn’t happen because that is the culture of the place. That is something I am hoping that this commission addresses.”

Mr Tudge and Ms Miller engaged in an affair for part of the time they worked together during 2016 and 2017.

He stood down from the frontbench in December 2021 when it became public.

Mr Tudge has previously said he was at times sexually intimate with Ms Miller but insists they did not have sexual intercourse.

The royal commission is investigating how Australians’ annual tax information was used to determine average fortnightly earnings and automatically establish welfare debts.

Originally published as Robodebt royal commission hears from former Morrison government minister