John Silvester on the underworld figures infiltrating the CFMEU

For more than 45 years, John Silvester has been reporting on Australia’s criminal underworld.

Some notable figures, like Mick Gatto – a key player in the gangland wars that were immortalised in popular TV series Underbelly – are now implicated in an investigation that has rocked the highest offices in the country. That of alleged corruption in the CFMEU, one of the nation’s most powerful unions.

Why have so many of our politicians allegedly turned a blind eye to underworld figures running a cartel-like operation in the union?

Silvester joins Samantha Selinger-Morris on The Morning Edition podcast to give an inside look into the psychology of the underworld figures who have managed to charm and intimidate the rich and the powerful.

You can listen to the episode in full in the player below.

Samantha Selinger-Morris: So John, you have had arguably unparalleled access to Australia’s underworld. We’re talking about dealings with people who regularly have contracts out on their life. The people that, you know, the rest of us wouldn’t want to bump into in a city lane. You run towards these people, so to speak. So you are really in a rare position to give us some insight into what makes these people tick. So, I would love to start with Mike Gatto. He’s got close ties with John Setka, who until the other week was head of the CFMEU. So tell me about Mick Gatto, who is he?

John Silvester: Oh Mick is a fascinating man. Mick, for many years, he flew under the radar but during the war, which was 20 years ago, the so-called “Underbelly war” he became a person of note because it was a war between the Morans, with whom Mick had some connection, and Carl Williams’ crew ... Ultimately, Mick was charged with the murder of hitman Andrew Veniamin, they’d had a confrontation in a Carlton restaurant. And Mick went to prison for 14 months in solitary confinement until his trial when he’s acquitted. Now, it’s an insight into Gatto, because 14 months in solitary confinement – imagine being, 23 hours a day, in a room the size of your bathroom – well that’s what happened with Mick. In my experience, it breaks people. But when Mick came out, he just looked magnificent. He lost 30 kilograms. And I asked him what he’d done. He said every day, he just read his brief of evidence and shadowboxed.

SSM: What is it actually like to be with Mick Gatto? Explain to me what it’s like when you’re in his presence? Because you famously have been granted interviews with him. He says he likes to keep a low profile. But meanwhile, you have had a number of interviews with him. So what is he actually like when you meet him?

JS: Absolutely charming. And he presents an image of course, as we all do. But, you know, for example during the Underbelly days, he was picking up kids at school and he was told by a teacher: “Look, the parents are a bit concerned that, you know, you might be bringing people who might want to kill you and our kids, or we could be at risk.”

Imagine being the maths teacher in a corduroy jacket being assigned to go and tell Mick Gatto you can’t come and pick your kids up at school. But Mick in fact said: “I perfectly understand and if I was another parent, I’d probably think the same way.” So he doesn’t go out of his way to make enemies, but he gets attention because perhaps you don’t want to be an enemy.

John Silvester lifts the lid on Australia’s criminal underworld. Subscribers can sign up to receive his Naked City newsletter every Thursday.