Joe Rogan v ABC boss: The unlikeliest of media spats

It’s likely that before ABC chair Kim Williams’ National Press Club address on Wednesday, the world’s most popular podcaster, Joe Rogan, had not heard of the urbane public broadcaster boss.

On paper, the pair could not be further apart. Williams, a former professional clarinettist, adores classical music and has spent his adult life immersed in the arts.

ABC chair Kim Williams (centre) has found himself in an unlikely war of words with Joe Rogan (left) and drawn criticism from Elon Musk.

Rogan, previously a stand-up comic and Ultimate Fighting Championship commentator, has courted millions of listeners to his program, The Joe Rogan Experience, where conversations on martial arts, recreational drug use, and any number of other topics stretch out in episodes more than three hours long.

Yet after Williams offered his scathing opinion of Rogan to a room full of Australian journalists, he found himself in the most unlikely trans-Pacific media spat.

What happened?

Williams sparked the unexpected war of words on Wednesday when he responded to a question about Rogan’s influence on the US election, and whether the ABC should be trying to capture the “bro market” Rogan has cornered with his chart-topping podcast.

In the 15 years since The Joe Rogan Experience launched, the show has become the world’s most-listened-to podcast, topping the charts in the United States and Australia.

Williams opened by saying he was not well-placed to answer the question because he is “not a consumer or enthusiast of Mr Rogan and his work” before launching an attack.

“I think that people like Mr Rogan prey on people’s vulnerabilities. They prey on fear. They prey on anxiety. They prey on all of the elements that contribute to uncertainty in society, and they entrepreneur fantasy outcomes and conspiracy outcomes as being a normal part of social narrative,” he said.

“I personally find it deeply repulsive, and to think that someone has such remarkable power in the United States is something that I look at in disbelief.

“I’m also absolutely in dismay that this can be a source of public entertainment, when it’s really treating the public as plunder for entrepreneurs that are really quite malevolent.”

The remarks quickly made headlines, drawing responses from Rogan and the world’s richest man, Elon Musk.

Rogan shared a clip of Williams’ comments on social media platform X by an account called @wideawake_media, with the caption “LOL WUT”.

Musk then weighed in, adding his own message to Rogan’s post.

“From the head of Australian government-funded media, their Pravda,” Musk wrote.

Pravda was the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

Musk, who owns X, has publicly opposed the Albanese government’s plans to ban children under 16 from using social media.

The fallout

Williams doubled down on his comments on Thursday morning, hitting back at his critics, whom he labelled as being “made of glass”.

“I’ve never spent, to be perfectly frank, a lot of time thinking about Joe Rogan. I’m aware of his ubiquitous presence in many of the elements of podcast land. I wasn’t aware until yesterday that he had 3 billion followers, and I’d have to admit to having some scepticism as to that number, but he’s obviously been a very influential character in America,” Williams told ABC Radio Melbourne.

Joe Rogan is Spotify’s most-listened-to podcaster.

Spotify does not publicise its play statistics, but earlier this year, Bloomberg reported that Rogan was the platform’s most popular podcaster, with 14.5 million followers. The Joe Rogan Experience YouTube channel has 18.6 million subscribers and 5.6 billion views of its content.

Williams said he had been “swarmed with the most unbelievably vicious responses” since his address.

“You make a comment in response to a legitimate question from a journalist, you answer it concisely and give an honest answer in terms of what your own perception of what Mr Joe Rogan is, and suddenly, I get this huge pile-on from people in the most aggressive way, saying that I have a warped outlook on the world, that I am an embarrassment to our nation, that I am in some way unhinged, that I am a supreme example of arrogance and disconnection with Australian society, and all manner of things,” he said.

“I don’t get it. I really don’t understand.”

The Morning Edition newsletter is our guide to the day’s most important and interesting stories, analysis and insights. Sign up here.