‘It’s an economic issue’: Commissioner Anna Cody on sex discrimination

Each week, Benjamin Law asks public figures to discuss the subjects we’re told to keep private by getting them to roll a die. The numbers they land on are the topics they’re given. This week, he talks to Dr Anna Cody. The 56-year-old is Australia’s Sex Discrimination Commissioner, an academic and lawyer who was previously the dean of the School of Law and a professor at Western Sydney University.

Anna Cody: “I believe we can prevent family and domestic violence if we listen to the changes that women and girls are calling for.” Credit: Dominic Lorrimer

RELIGION

Did you grow up in a faith? Yes. Both my parents were Catholic and that was a large part of my growing up. We were pretty observant.

What about now? I identify as Catholic. I don’t go to Mass regularly, but I still believe in prayer and meditation. What was always significant to me were the social justice teachings within Catholicism. Most religions have this: a strong belief in the dignity and importance of every human’s life, and that certainly informs my work.

Yet Catholicism is a deeply patriarchal institution. How do you square that circle? There are teachings that I certainly don’t agree with, but I don’t think that means that I’m not Catholic. We’re complex human beings. Part of my vision as Sex Discrimination Commissioner is being able to live within a range of communities and identities, holding them all as a lovely, fruity, juicy mix of who we are.

Which of the Ten Commandments are you most susceptible to breaking? Oh, definitely the swearing one!

Is there a feminist, living or dead, whom you idolise? There are women whom I think are amazing and do fantastic work: Linda Burney, June Oscar – my co-commissioner at the Human Rights Commission – various Muslim women leaders and Tarana Burke, who started the #MeToo movement. It’s everyday women, too; women looking after their children and parents.

MONEY

True or false? All lawyers are rich. [Laughs] Community legal centres have some of the worst-paid lawyers in Australia, but they are some of the smartest, most dedicated, most compassionate people I’ve ever met.

Did you always know that you wanted to work in the law and academia? No, I wanted to work as a doctor, but I liked arguing and I liked ideas, so I ended up doing law. Law is powerful because it regulates how we make decisions and creates the rules by which we live. So I saw it as a potential area where we could include different groups – the socio-economically disadvantaged; LGBTQI+ people; women and girls who’ve experienced domestic violence – and reflect their experience; law as a way to improve people’s lives. Academia gives you the space in which to think about other ways of doing things.

To what extent is sex discrimination an economic issue? It’s fundamentally an economic issue: the gender pay gap is currently at 14 per cent; different reporting has it at 22 per cent. Women are segregated into female-dominated industries, which are generally much lower paid than male-dominated industries. Sex discrimination, on a systemic level, is about income disparity.

What’s needed? The things that cause it, in Australia, are the unequal sharing of care, unfriendly workplaces – where there’s sexual harassment and gender discrimination – and our very highly segregated industries.

For you, what constitutes money well spent? Travelling somewhere where there are people whom I love, and experiencing different cultures.

What’s next on the wish list? Visiting friends in Mexico.

POLITICS

When you were first appointed, you said a person is rarely just a woman – that she also has a racial background, a sexuality, possibly a disability. Why was it important for you to spotlight that? Australia is at a different point now. We have a deeper understanding of who we are as a society, but also how each of us – as an individual – fits within that. We’re ready to understand ourselves and our society in a more complex way.

Those comments have made you a target for some commentators. One argued they “provided a rundown of the Left’s favourite ways to divide people and set them up for special treatment”. How do you respond? I think that piece then went on to talk about women as mothers, nurses and teachers. And, in some way, that writer made my point for me: yes, we are mothers, journalists, teachers. We experience things differently. A First Nations mother may have a different birthing experience to someone who’s not. We have things that connect us and things that differentiate us.

What would success look like for you by the time you leave this role? A society in which women and girls are recognised for their strength and the incredible care work they do. That First Nations women and girls and culturally diverse women and girls are seen and valued in terms of the incomes they receive; that low-income women have a fairer go. And that there is a fair go for people in LGBTQI+ communities. I believe we can prevent family and domestic violence if we listen to the changes that women and girls are calling for and implement them. Many Indigenous women have provided evidence of proven ways to stop violence in their communities. We need to listen to those voices and resource them.

Can you be friends with someone who doesn’t share your politics? Yes … but I’m trying to think if I’m friends with anyone who doesn’t [laughs]. Politics is so broad. I don’t just think of party politics: I also think of feminism, anti-racism, anti-homophobia. We’re all on a spectrum. I would hope I can be friends with people who see the world very differently to me.

National Sexual Assault, Family & Domestic Violence Counselling Line: 1800 737 732. Crisis support can be found at Lifeline (13 11 14), the Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467) and beyondblue (1300 22 4636)

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