‘A thin line between badass and dumbass’: How a mountain athlete stays alive

Each week, Benjamin Law asks public figures to discuss the subjects we’re told to keep private by getting them to roll a die. The numbers they land on are the topics they’re given. This weeks he speaks to Jimmy Chin. The Oscar-winning filmmaker, athlete, photographer and author, 51, made the first US ski descent from the summit of Mount Everest in 2006. His book is There and Back. His films include Free Solo and Nyad.

“Calculate risk accurately. And remember there’s a thin line between badass and dumbass.”Credit: The Hollywood Reporter via Getty Images

RELIGION

Your parents are Chinese immigrants. Were you raised with religious beliefs or spiritual systems? No, not outside some Chinese traditional superstitions and beliefs. My parents sent me to a Catholic school – what they considered to be the best private school in the small town [Mankato, Minnesota] where I grew up. In college, I did a deep dive into Eastern religion and philosophy – particularly Buddhism and Taoism. I have a loose association with Buddhism, but I’m not a practising Buddhist.

Is there a word that feels right for you nowadays? Agnostic? Atheist? Spiritual? Spiritual. I have a lot of spiritual experiences in the wildest places on the planet.

You exude confidence. Do you ever doubt yourself? I often feel doubt about something, and I’m scared to do it, then I find I’m on the right path. My life has been fraught with doubt: doubt about the career that I’ve pursued; doubt about climbing another hundred metres up this giant mountain; doubt that we’re going to make it down alive. People think, “Oh, he’s totally self-assured,” but there’s a lot of risk in my line of work and you learn to kind of overcome the doubt. That’s courage, I think. When people commit to a big dream, that’s courage. There’s nothing more vulnerable than having a big dream and then pursuing it.

BODIES

You ski, swim, climb and trek. Were you always this physically capable? I grew up swimming competitively. Swimming is one of those things where you really learn about your physical capacity. Swimming three hours in the morning, and three hours in the evening – that’s six hours a day where you’re constantly pushing yourself. Even a day off can put you back several days. So you really get to know your body and its limits. I also studied martial arts from about five or six and had my black belt in taekwondo by the time I was 12. You understand the discipline it requires to perform at an elite level from a very young age. So I had a really good physical and mental baseline to pursue any sport. That’s not to say that I was talented in anything, but I understood what it took to become good at something.

What’s the most intense thing that you’ve physically had to endure? There’s been a lot. Everything from skiing in the Tetons [in Wyoming, America] and rock-climbing in Maro [in Spain] to climbing and skiing on Mount Everest and climbing a new route in Antarctica.

What kind of toll does doing all of this – as a job – take on your body? There’ve been no serious permanent injuries, knock on wood, but I’m 51 now. I train quite a bit. I love being in the mountains; I ski, tour, climb and surf a lot; I weight-train in the gym if I can’t be in the mountains. I need physical activity: it brings me a lot of clarity, puts life into perspective. The by-product is that you end up being pretty fit.

Are you feeling your age in your body at all? [Smiles] I’m feeling pretty good right now. I feel that my baseline right now is still pretty solid. Yeah.

Where’s the most surreal place you’ve had to take a dump? People are always like, “How do you go to the bathroom hanging off an alpine wall?” In your harness, on the side of a wall at 20,000 feet [about 6000 metres] … I guess some people might think that’s a surreal place to take a dump. The key rule about that is that you do it below your climbing partners.

DEATH

How many times have you genuinely felt, “I am going to die in this moment”? [Extremely long pause] It’s either three or 50 times.

That’s a big spectrum. Why? Well, there are moments where you’re like, “Well, I could have died there!” Maybe that’s more like a hundred. But real moments where I thought I was actually, 100 per cent going to die? Probably three.

Do you revisit those incidents or do you try to cast them out of your mind? No, you don’t cast them out of your mind. They should be useful lessons. Those moments help you realign your priorities pretty quickly.

Most people go out of their way to avoid high-risk situations. What draws you back to those experiences and situations? Not living a full life is death.

I imagine the reason you’re still alive now is because you follow protocols and procedures. What are the rules for avoiding death? Don’t be dumb. Calculate risk accurately. And remember there’s a thin line between badass and dumbass.

You’ve lived so many lives and won so many accolades. Is there anything left on the bucket list? Yeah, there’s an infinite number of climbs that I still want to do, places I want to surf and ski, films I want to make and people I want to meet. The list is long. I can’t imagine ever feeling as if I’ve accomplished everything. But maybe that comes with time. One of my mentors, John Krakauer [the author and mountaineer], said that there are two great risks in life: risking too much and risking too little. People spend a lot of time thinking, “Oh, that’s too big of a risk.” But the true risk in life is risking too little.

Jimmy Chin appears at Vivid Sydney on June 13 at Sydney Town Hall.

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