Melbourne Football Club captain, Max Gawn, on leadership and longevity

He's setting others up to thrive

Now in his 17th season for Melbourne Football Club, the towering ruckman opens up about captaincy, longevity and life after retirement.

In 2020 you were named Melbourne’s captain and have since gone on to lead for six straight seasons. How has your idea of leadership evolved in that time? 

You get a bit more comfortable with your own thoughts. I still have some doubts and I still have the same jitters before tough conversations, that doesn’t go away. But you certainly get a bit more comfortable in the role and back your own judgement. There’s cool things I get to do like I get to go flip the coin. There’s a whole minute where you get to flip the coin and then go talk to the boys before they run out there. That’s a pretty cool process. 

What do you think makes for a great team captain?

What makes for a great team captain, that’s a broad question I don’t have a real answer to. My main focus is to create - with a numerous amount of people - the most comfortable four walls possible so people can be their best self. Ideally, to perform at your best you need to be at your best self. Creating a comfortable work environment that allows people to thrive is my main focus. 

What’s your advice for creating that positive team culture? 

Certainly, it needs to be from the bottom-up. Everyone needs to share their opinions and their voices. You need to work out what is comfortable for each person. We do a lot of storytelling around our backgrounds, our lives, what our passions are. One way or another, you all put your little one per cent in and it creates an environment that you enjoy. Also for myself, I’ve had a very interesting career where I’ve probably been in every single position that any player is at. I was a late draft pick, I was a horrible young player, I almost got de-listed. I’ve been in contract, I’ve been out of contract, I’ve been in trouble, I’ve been a good boy. I’ve been playing good AFL footy, I’ve been playing bad AFL footy. I’ve been sort of everywhere in a football career, so I can certainly talk to most people. 

In 2021, you led the club to its first premiership since 1964. When you had critics and a tide of public opinion against you, how did you silence the noise and find the confidence as a team to succeed?  

No matter what, a drought-breaking premiership is a pretty high pressure environment. You’ve got a lot of expectation from supporters, even to an extent club staff and board and well-paying members. There’s a fair bit of pressure that this is the time, and this is the moment. We were actually over in Perth and it was still Covid times in the eastern states, particularly Melbourne. That probably was one blessing in disguise - that we were a long, long way from the supporters on the streets. We probably didn’t really know how big the moment was in terms of Melbourne Football Club. We knew the significance of a grand final and a premiership, but what it meant to majority of Melbourne supporters, it was good we were so far away. 

What we did was create a really cool month. We were locked in for two weeks to do the isolation but we were in a nice little resort which made it nice and we created a pretty cool place. We had some dads that were missing their kids, I think Jake Lever’s daughter was four weeks old. He was obviously trying to win a flag, but you’ve got to balance that. For us to win a flag, we need Jake at our best self. How do we get Jake at his best self with a four-week-old daughter back home that he’s missing. So, we were able to create some safe environments where if he didn’t want to train or he needed to do something at a critical time, he was able to do it. We always did that family-first mentality, even though family wasn't there. But it created the best version of Jake, which obviously got us in a better environment for the team. 

We get involved in a lot of wrestling and a lot of contest-type activity, which can be tolling as well. Image: Getty

And on the day of the premiership, how do you lead the team in the change room before walking out to the field? Is there anything you’re saying to the players to put them in a winning headspace? 

I think - and I love leaders who do this - it’s showing vulnerability. Early on, I reckon I walked into the game going, ‘I’m going to be that tough leader that shows the big occasion doesn’t bother me.’ I went and snuck in and watched Birds of Tokyo play. I got a bit overwhelmed that Birds of Tokyo were the lead act for us. I came back into the room and was showing my nerves and that I was a bit overwhelmed, and I think it put everyone else in a state of calm knowing that if I realised the big occasion, it’s OK to be nervous. If you had walked into our rooms pre-game, you would have gone, “Geez, these guys are incredibly nervous.” But I think it’s OK to be nervous, it’s OK to care about something a lot. 

The position of ruckman is considered one of the most physically and mentally taxing in the AFL. How do you train and prepare mentally to perform at your best? 

I’m biased here. Make sure we write this in bold: it’s the most critical position on the ground. No, it is quite tolling and we are bigger than everyone else so the load that goes through our bodies is obviously a lot higher. We get involved in a lot of wrestling and a lot of contest-type activity, which can be tolling as well. I’ve been relatively good in the back-end of my career at staying fit and healthy. I certainly think one thing is maintaining my week as best as I can. I like to get into the water at some point, I like to get into the sauna at some point. I like to do stretching. I’m very lucky, I’ve even got my own home space with a home sauna, home ice-bath, and a pilates reformer machine, too. 

I’ve worked out some little things that can get me into a good mindset, but it’s still incredibly tough. Image: Getty

You could essentially open up shop and charge players for this

I’ve thought about a gold coin donation for a little bit, and then I just started to bring the guys in. We’d all sauna and ice-bath before a game. We have about four or five guys that come over and do it all here. 

Injuries in competitive sport are inevitable, and in the 2024 season you were sidelined for some weeks with a lower leg injury. What toll did this setback take on your mindset and how did you get through it? 

I’m a bad injured person, so I can relate to everyone out there. Especially short-term injuries, so a two-week calf or two-week hamstring, I’m really bad. I can’t handle that. I’ve worked out some little things that can get me into a good mindset, but it’s still incredibly tough. The longer injuries, I’ve had a few long-term injuries when I was young. My mindset was if I wasn't playing AFL, I’d be at the gym at 6am, working my ass off and then going to work. When I play AFL, I get to go to the gym at 10 o’clock in a great facility and watch the boys train. It’s a pretty cool gig when you’re a young player and you’re injured. 

When you’re older, there’s that mixture of letting the team down by not being out there, and then wanting to do everything you can to get back because short-term injuries - the difference between 14 days and 15 days - could be a game. Everyone’s trying to beat the initial diagnosis. Say the Physio says, “This will be a 21-day hamstring,” you’re like, “Ok, operation Get Back In 20 Days.” That sort of mindset just puts you to work. It is tough but it also is the reason why I don’t like getting injured and I do everything I can to stay not injured because I know how rough it can be. Even though it’s 20 days out of your life and you still get paid and you get to stay healthy and fit and be out in the sunshine a lot. The stresses of letting your team down and non-stop trying to beat the recovery is quite an intense little period. 

But also, the benefits from a strength point of view and functional training is well and truly proven. Image: Getty

You’ve recently become Your Reformer's newest Wellness Ambassador. Why did you start incorporating reformer pilates into your training routine and what benefits have you seen? 

Get ready for the stereotype-breaker: I’m a ruckman with a beard that lifts weights, that’s also an ambassador for Lululumen and Your Reformer. I haven’t always been the best in the weights room, I don’t love it. Weights would be the thing that’s last on the to-do list to get myself ready to play. It’s obviously a critical part of football and being a professional athlete - being strong. But I needed to work out what was another way for me to be strong that’s in my realm of interests. 

As much as I still lift and still do a lot of weights, balancing it out with stretching and mobility and a little bit of core and glute work on a reformer keeps my mind at ease and gets me in my best mindset. But also, the benefits from a strength point of view and functional training is well and truly proven. The difference between the start of my career to the back-end of my career, I’m not going to put it all on core and doing the pilates, but it certainly has helped me with my mindset and also strength wise. 

Professional careers in the AFL are typically short, with the average length of seven years. What do you make of your longevity in the sport? 

I’ve been able to be a part of a premiership, win some best and fairest awards, and have some pretty good individual honours along the way, but the longevity is the thing I’m most proud of. I think to be able to stay loyal to one football club for 17 seasons and be able to play good football deep into my 30s - well, not deep 30s, I’m still in my early 30s but deep in football world 30s - I’m incredibly proud of that. 

You just can’t ride the highs too much, or ride the lows too much. Image: Getty

You’re known for your sense of humour and self-deprecating nature. What role does humour play in helping the team bounce back from defeat on the footy field? 

I think what’s important is if humour is in your best self and you are a funny person - which I’m not necessarily saying I am, there are certainly five or six players I could name that are hilarious at our football club - if you’re asking them not to be themselves post a loss, you’d spiral in the wrong direction. I think everyone handles losses differently and you will get those players who think about it for a couple days and are a bit serious about it, but you’ve got to let those class clowns come in and be themselves, because they are actually the ones that bring those guys that overthink it back out. Fortunately and unfortunately, you’ve got a came every week, so you can’t really ponder it too much. 

I played a game yesterday and I’m already thinking of the next in five days time. You’ve got to get out of yourself as quickly as possible. I’m not sure if you’re up to date, but I kind of lost the game with a kick that I did at the end of the game. The more I think about that, the more I hurt my game in five days. So, I need your Christian Petracca to be his class clown self, and get me out of myself and I think humour plays a great role in that. 

Successful teams are the ones who can bounce back from defeat quickly and refocus after a loss. What strategies have you adopted that help with that?

You just can’t ride the highs too much, or ride the lows too much. You have to be balanced. We lost by a point yesterday, and if we had won by a point, the whole shift is different but it shouldn’t be. It should be relatively balanced. What does certainly help is family. I’ve got two boys, the three-year-old is starting to get a bit upset when Melbourne loses but the one-year-old couldn’t care less. The fact that you have those two in the room, win or loss, and they just want to see you, that makes it a lot easier when you walk in. But you’ve just got to try and remind yourself that I’ve played 240-odd games and I’ve lost half of them, you don’t win every single game and it’s a pretty balanced competition and balanced season. If you can keep a relatively calm mindset, it’ll put you in the best place for the back-end of the year. 

I love football so my three-year-old is obsessed by it, to the point where we’re trying to limit a few football things now because it’s a bit over-obsessed. Image: Getty

You became a dad in 2022. How has fatherhood changed your perspective of the game? 

I’ve realised that kids are clones of yourself. I love football so my three-year-old is obsessed by it, to the point where we’re trying to limit a few football things now because it’s a bit over-obsessed. He knows all the 18 songs, has footy cards galore. It’s wild. He loves it, which I love. I love the fact that he loves something that I love. I always made the joke that I’m not going to force him to do anything but he’ll be playing football. He can do whatever he wants, but he’ll be playing football. But they’re both beautiful boys. I enjoy playing football a lot, but I enjoy playing football with my family even more. 

How do you navigate the demands of training with family priorities? 

Yeah, you just bring them in and everyone else looks after them, it’s great. No, we’re very flexible. If there’s a daycare pick-up or kinder pick-up that gets in the way of training, that always takes priority. If the father is struggling at home because of inability to nail timings of picking up kids or helping out Mum at home, they’re probably not being the best version of themselves when they get to the club. Once again, it’s always a balance but family does come first pretty much in every scenario. I think if you look at our team, a lot of our dads are playing incredibly good football and I think it’s because there’s a bit of autonomy in the program and you’re able to balance it out with some family. 

The average age of retirement in the AFL is 32, yet you’re still performing at an elite level. Have you thought at all about life after retirement? What are you looking forward to? 

I’ve certainly thought about retirement and I’m pretty excited about what’s next which I think keeps you in a really good headspace with what you’re doing currently. I’m not scared of retirement, I’m not worried about retirement, it’ll come and I’m very excited for what’s next. I’m very excited to be with my family and be on a journey into what lies ahead. I’ve got some really big passions in hospitality, I’ve been involved in a food truck with my brother, The Bearded Jaffle, but I’ve now got a restaurant and a wine bar. I love the football landscape and the media world, and I’ve got some pretty cool ambitions that I’d like to travel and do as well. I think that’s exciting. If you get yourself into a headspace where you’re excited for what’s next, you sort of commit with everything you’ve got while you’ve still got. 

It’s more, ‘I’m inspired by you, but I’m not going to do the bacon at 4 am.’ Image: Getty

Tell us more about this restaurant!

I have a restaurant in Hawthorn called Motor, it’s an old garage-style building. We cook with fire, it’s cool. We started with a wine bar in Camberwell, that’s East End Wine Bar. That’s been going for about seven years, and the restaurant three years. They’re both very fun. My mum has been in hospitality for years and my mum is my hero, so I was always going to copy her albeit she was actually in hospitality doing the work, whereas I’m just sitting on the outsides and calling them my bars. 

Are these a family operation or a solo adventure?

They’re not. It’s more, ‘I’m inspired by you, but I’m not going to do the bacon at 4 am.’

Originally published as Melbourne Football Club captain, Max Gawn, on leadership and longevity