Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and Jennifer Williams testify in Trump impeachment inquiry
An aide to Vice President Mike Pence and another top national security figure have told an impeachment hearing that Joe Biden could have appeared to have had a conflict of interest in dealing with Ukraine.
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Public impeachment hearings have recommenced in Washington, as Democrats seek to make their case that US President Donald Trump used his position to pressure a foreign government for personal political gain.
They accuse Mr Trump of withholding hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid to Ukraine in return for an investigation into the family of his political rival, leading 2020 Democrat presidential candidate Joe Biden.
Mr Trump denies the allegations and describes the process as a politically motivated “sham”.
The pair, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman of the National Security Council, and Jennifer Williams, his counterpart at Vice President Mike Pence’s office, are testifying side-by-side before the House Intelligence.
The two top national security figures listened into a July 25 phone call between Mr Trump and his newly installed Ukraine counterpart and said the conversation concerned them.
In her testimony, Ms Williams said the call “struck me as unusual and inappropriate.”
Republican committee member Elise Stefanik described the impeachment proceedings as “hysteria”, given the aid was released by the US and the Biden investigation did not eventuate.
She pressed both witnesses on whether the role of Hunter Biden on the board of the energy company Burisma, which had been identified by the US State Department as a “corrupt” company, had the potential of an “appearance” of a “conflict of interest”.
Tell Jennifer Williams, whoever that is, to read BOTH transcripts of the presidential calls, & see the just released ststement from Ukraine. Then she should meet with the other Never Trumpers, who I don’t know & mostly never even heard of, & work out a better presidential attack!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 17, 2019
Mr Biden held the role while his father, Joe Biden, served as Vice President in the Obama administration and lead the US relationship with Ukraine.
“Certainly the potential, yes,” said Col Vindman. Ms Williams also agreed.
The afternoon session of testimony from former National Security Council official Tim Morrison and former special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker was expected to bolster Trump’s defense, as they were requested by the Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee.
Mr Volker shrugged off criticism of former Vice President Joe Biden, saying any suggestion he behaved corruptly was “not credible.”
Mr Volker said Mr Biden “respects his duties of higher office” and he did not believe he would act in any way other than in the national interest in order to benefit his son.
Mr Volker also said his opinion of the request by Mr Trump for an investigation of the Ukrainian gas company where Hunter Biden served on the board had changed as new information came to light.
He said at the time he was involved in discussions about the probe into the Burisma Group, he considered it a separate matter to the Bidens.
He said an investigation into the Ukrainian gas company was “appropriate and unremarkable”, but that a direct probe of the Bidens would have been “unacceptable.”
“In retrospect, I should have seen that connection differently, and had I done so, I would have raised my own objections,” he said.
Whether or not the White House request for a Biden probe was a request or an order has been repeatedly touched on in evidence from Col. Vindman.
“It was improper for the president to demand an investigation into a political opponent especially a foreign power where there’s at best dubious belief that this could be a completely impartial investigation,” Col. Vindman said of Mr Trump referring to the Bidens during the July 25 phone call.
In later testimony he said the inequality in the pair’s relationship, with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy a relative unknown and Mr Trump one of the “most powerful” men in the world, meant the request could be seen as a “demand”.
“When a superior makes a request, that’s an order,” he said.
Some questioners tried to pin down the political leanings of Ms Williams and Col. Vindman, asking both if they were “never Trumpers”.
Ms Williams responded: “I’m not sure if I know of an official definition of never Trumper.”
“Would you describe yourself that way?” asked Democrat Jim Himes.
“No, I would not.”
When asked, Col Vindman responded: “I would call myself never partisan.”
The inquiry also heard that Col Vindman had rejected repeated offers to become defense minister from the new Ukraine administration and reported them to his bosses.
“Every single time I dismissed it,” Col Vindman said of the three times he was offered the post.
“Upon returning, I notified my chain of command and the appropriate counterintelligence folks about the offer.”
Committee chair Adam Schiff opened proceedings by pointing out both Col. Vindman and Ms Williams have been “viciously attacked” by the Trump White House for their evidence.
His Republican counterpart, Devin Nunes, listed a series of false headlines about Mr Trump and called again for the whistleblower who “kickstarted impeachment” to testify.
Evidence is expected later from former NSC official Timothy Morrison and Kurt Volker, a former Ukraine special envoy.
Last Friday, Mr Trump was accused of trying to intimidate a key witness in real time as she gave testimony against him at the second day of public impeachment hearings.
As the former US Ambassador to Ukraine, who was sacked by the Trump White House, was speaking to the House Intelligence Committee, Mr Trump slammed her on Twitter, saying: “Everywhere Marie Yovanovitch went turned bad.”
When she was shown the message by the committee chairman, Adam Schiff, she said it was ”very intimidating”.
Mr Trump later defended his message saying “I have the right to speak”.
The moment was another of high drama in the impeachment inquiry, which has played along strict party lines.
Democrats last Wednesday commenced the first public impeachment hearings against a sitting US president since Bill Clinton in the late 1990s.
They accuse Mr Trump of using his office to pressure Ukraine to investigate the family of his political rival.
Democrats claim Mr Trump threatened to withhold military aid to Ukraine in return for the Biden probe in what they initially described as a “quid pro quo” but have now started calling “bribery”.
Bribery and “high crimes and misdemeanours” are impeachable offences under the US Constitution.
Mr Trump admits discussing the Bidens with his Ukraine counterpart, but denies any wrongdoing.
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has said he was not aware Washington was delaying the aid, which was eventually granted.
Republicans say the highly-paid position of Mr Biden’s son on the board of a Ukraine energy company – despite having no clear credentials for the role – was a conflict of interest for the Obama White House and should have been investigated.
Only two other former presidents, Mr Clinton and Andrew Johnson, have been impeached, but neither was found guilty in the ensuing Senate trial or removed from office, and the process sparked a 10 point poll lift for Mr Clinton.
Richard Nixon resigned before a trial into the Watergate scandal.
Originally published as Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and Jennifer Williams testify in Trump impeachment inquiry